Is stalling cheating?

[Truth is Out There]

Originally Posted by petersenkid2

Maybe I should have named the post Is stalling 'playing dirty'?

Seems like everybody agrees that it's not cheating, but some folks think it's not really an appropriate way to wrestle or coach.

I don't think so.

Again, I would look upon basketball rules on fouls. Imagine not being allowed to deliberately foul (not flagrantly) and your only recourse is to play tough defense. Seems kind of silly. You make the best rules you can and you have to live with their unitended uses as well as their intended uses. Same as with stalling. Someone else said it best, if you've wrestled yourself into a position such that you can stall your way through the remainder of a match then you have EARNED the right to do so.

What sucks is when the application of the rules CHANGES and stalling gets called more frequently than it did at any other point in the match. A foul is a foul and stalling is stalling. Call it the way it is and you it eliminates some problems.

Basketball has become virtually unwatchable for me simply because of the subjectivity of the officiating.

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by petersenkid2

Maybe I should have named the post Is stalling 'playing dirty'?

Seems like everybody agrees that it's not cheating, but some folks think it's not really an appropriate way to wrestle or coach.

I don't know, but I don't like it. How many times have you seen a kid build a lead by being aggressive, and then start stalling at some point in the match, only to give up the lead when the other wrestler takes advantage of the let up? I don't like the mentality of "build a lead and then coast". I have seen it cost some matches, even without a stalling call. I always tell kids to keep doing what you did to get the lead; don't change your strategy midstream. On the other hand, you don't need to take risks either when you are in the lead. My kids tend to stay aggressive. That has cost them a few matches too. The most memorable was when Jonathan wrestled Vince Ramos downstate in 2006. Jonathan was up with about 15 seconds in the match. Vince tied up and Jonathan hit him with a beautiful headlock; except Vince rolled through, scored the takedown with time running out and won the match by a point. That one hurt. He didn't need to take the risk.

[PapaBearSLIM]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

I don't know, but I don't like it. How many times have you seen a kid build a lead by being aggressive, and then start stalling at some point in the match, only to give up the lead when the other wrestler takes advantage of the let up? I don't like the mentality of "build a lead and then coast". I have seen it cost some matches, even without a stalling call. I always tell kids to keep doing what you did to get the lead; don't change your strategy midstream. On the other hand, you don't need to take risks either when you are in the lead. My kids tend to stay aggressive. That has cost them a few matches too. The most memorable was when Jonathan wrestled Vince Ramos downstate in 2006. Jonathan was up with about 15 seconds in the match. Vince tied up and Jonathan hit him with a beautiful headlock; except Vince rolled through, scored the takedown with time running out and won the match by a point. That one hurt. He didn't need to take the risk.

My kid's aggression has cost him quite a few matches. But its won him quite few too.

[TomCiezki]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

I don't know, but I don't like it. How many times have you seen a kid build a lead by being aggressive, and then start stalling at some point in the match, only to give up the lead when the other wrestler takes advantage of the let up? I don't like the mentality of "build a lead and then coast". I have seen it cost some matches, even without a stalling call. I always tell kids to keep doing what you did to get the lead; don't change your strategy midstream. On the other hand, you don't need to take risks either when you are in the lead. My kids tend to stay aggressive. That has cost them a few matches too. The most memorable was when Jonathan wrestled Vince Ramos downstate in 2006. Jonathan was up with about 15 seconds in the match. Vince tied up and Jonathan hit him with a beautiful headlock; except Vince rolled through, scored the takedown with time running out and won the match by a point. That one hurt. He didn't need to take the risk.

Close Match - Drive
Huge Lead - Neutral
2 pt. lead with no stalling warnings and seconds on the clock - REVERSE!

[wrestlersdad]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

I don't know, but I don't like it. How many times have you seen a kid build a lead by being aggressive, and then start stalling at some point in the match, only to give up the lead when the other wrestler takes advantage of the let up? I don't like the mentality of "build a lead and then coast". I have seen it cost some matches, even without a stalling call. I always tell kids to keep doing what you did to get the lead; don't change your strategy midstream. On the other hand, you don't need to take risks either when you are in the lead. My kids tend to stay aggressive. That has cost them a few matches too. The most memorable was when Jonathan wrestled Vince Ramos downstate in 2006. Jonathan was up with about 15 seconds in the match. Vince tied up and Jonathan hit him with a beautiful headlock; except Vince rolled through, scored the takedown with time running out and won the match by a point. That one hurt. He didn't need to take the risk.

I believe it is about match management. Don't go into shut down mode, but don't take unnecessary risks either and know the different between the two.

[EastBeast29]

Stalling is definately NOT cheating, as a matter of fact it is a strategy in most cases other than the few that just sit on the mat like a turd. If you can stall effectively you may even score points without trying very hard, like if you use the arm drag you can use it the whole match and you aren't really trying to score in most cases unless that is your main setup.

[MR TWISTER]

Originally Posted by PapaBearSLIM

My kid's aggression has cost him quite a few matches. But its won him quite few too.

Mine too. He won a whole lot more being aggressive than stalling or trying to sit on a lead. Just not the Twister way.

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by PapaBearSLIM

My kid's aggression has cost him quite a few matches. But its won him quite few too.

I would much rather lose a few being too aggressive than the other way around.

[MSMW]

Stalling is not cheating even the best wrestlers have been called for stalling its something many wrestlers use to get the match over with

[petersenkid2]

Originally Posted by TomCiezki

Close Match - Drive
Huge Lead - Neutral
2 pt. lead with no stalling warnings and seconds on the clock - REVERSE!

BAKERSFIELD - Gilroy High sophomore Nikko Villarreal pulled off one of the biggest shockers in the history of the California Interscholastic Federation state wrestling championship Saturday night. Trailing 3-0 with about five seconds remaining, he took down three-time champion Alex Cisneros of Selma for a two-point takedown. He then turned him toward his back for a three-point near-fall and a stunning 5-3 victory.


http://youtu.be/V-5TIVQYqkw
The throw happens at about the 2:32 mark of the video and you can see that the second ref signals time about 1 second after the head ref finishes his five count.

I think that Mr. Cisneros should have taken a page out of your book and become a 4x champion.

Just my opinion.