Illinois Matmen Forums Illinois Matmen Forums

Go Back   Illinois Matmen Forums > Statewide > IKWF

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 04-11-2012
RedskinTurnedHuskie RedskinTurnedHuskie is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by South Cider View Post
Weak statement. of all the private schools across the country. (over 2ooo of them) Br Rice is always ranked in the top 50 with St Ignatius and Loyola. Marist and Fenwick are not. But then what is the criteria for judgement? St Rita has 5 going to ivy league. Kids going to a Big ten school? Providence has 17. Marist parents drinking in a bar on 111th st talking how great their world is? countless....lol
South Cider,

In general, I try to limit my comments to topics that I can provide input/observations that are based on facts rather than personal opinion. With respect to the quality of Chicago area high schools, including Catholic schools, I have a considerable amount of knowledge that is based upon years of experience and data rather than conjecture. I apologize in advance to the Illinois Mat Men readers in advance for the length of this response as this has little to do with wrestling. Feel free to stop reading this post at this time.

As I stated earlier, Brother Rice is a fine school that does a very good job of both teaching Catholic values and providing young men with a solid college preparatory education. However, it is inaccurate to state that, when using generally accepted criteria, it is on the same level as the four schools mentioned previously (Ignatius, Loyola, Fenwick and Marist). Further, it is rather disingenuous of you to try to elevate the stature of Brother Rice by making condescending comments about the other schools. If you are a Crusader alumnus (or any other Catholic school), I find it unlikely that the Christian Brothers would condone your comments.

To support my comments, here are some data that most institutions of higher learning would consider to be most relevant. You will note that in general, Brother Rice is significantly behind 3 of the schools mentioned in this thread (Ignatius, Loyola and Fenwick) and largely trailing the other school mentioned in this thread (Marist).

1. Average ACT scores: Brother Rice: 23.4, Ignatius: 27.6, Fenwick: 26.7, Loyola: 25.8, Marist: 23.3
2. Illinois State Scholars: Brother Rice: 37, Ignatius: 114, Fenwick: 90, Loyola: 155, Marist: 54
3. College AP classes: Brother Rice: 10*, Ignatius: 18, Fenwick: 20, Loyola: 24, Marist: 19
*Brother Rice states they offer 14 classes while the official AP website lists 10 approved courses.
4. Percentage of Students entering college: Brother Rice: 97%, Ignatius: 100%, Fenwick: 100%, Loyola: 99%, Marist: 99%

If you find it necessary, feel free to pm me and I will provide you with the primary sources for this data as I think that this topic has likely run its course.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-11-2012
ModestMouse ModestMouse is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illiana View Post
I believe he has gone by both: Isaiah Walter White. It doesn't matter where he lives right now, it only matters where he lives when he enrolls in HS. Am I correct on this? No violation or rules being broken with the IHSA right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGrap81 View Post
They love to grab kids from all over the state over at OPRF. Kind of redicilous but it's whatever.

Does anyone else see the issues though in this logic? Why do we not care that schools can openly recruit a kid. It is getting out of hand to be completely honest.

It shouldnt be "Whatever". They let privates recruit and everyone complained, so now public schools recruit. The IHSA needs to be a governing body and make some decisions for once. IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-11-2012
Illiana's Avatar
Illiana Illiana is offline
Psalm 37:5
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lowell, Indiana
Posts: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by ModestMouse View Post
Does anyone else see the issues though in this logic? Why do we not care that schools can openly recruit a kid. It is getting out of hand to be completely honest.

It shouldnt be "Whatever". They let privates recruit and everyone complained, so now public schools recruit. The IHSA needs to be a governing body and make some decisions for once. IMO.

Again, where is the rules violation?You say "governing body" and "make decisions for once". It's hard to enforce something that doesn't exist. I know in Indiana and I believe Illinois is the same...as long as relocating occurs prior to starting their freshman year, there isn't anything a "governing body" can do about it. I guess you are suggesting that the rules change or an expansion of the purview of the IHSA.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-11-2012
mckajc mckajc is offline
Junior Varsity
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastoftheRedskins View Post
Oh and by the way when it comes to academics Marist has 7 kids playing football in the Ivy league alone, 10 kids wrestling in college including 2 big ten schools and our Math team just beat Br. Rice's math team by 800 points(not an exaggeration) in a numbers fight. ( I'm assuming that is the term they use instead of dual meets)
Kind of difficult to compare a school with under 1200 students(Bro.Rice)to a school with over 1700 students(Marist). I see South Cider has quoted some ACT scores and St.Scholars. Very nice research! But it's still a numbers game between a big school and a small school. Private schools aren't required to make public their in school test data. So it's kind of like comparing the number of honor roll students at each school of course the larger will have more. It would seem to stand to reason that an education at the school with the lower student to FTT(full time teacher)ratio would be best. Rice has half the students and more FTT's. So.... JMO

Last edited by mckajc; 04-11-2012 at 03:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-11-2012
RedskinTurnedHuskie RedskinTurnedHuskie is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by mckajc View Post
It would seem to stand to reason that an education at the school with the lower student to FTT(full time teacher)ratio would be best. Rice has half the students and more FTT's. So.... JMO
Mckajc,

Unfortunately, the numbers do not support your reasoning. In fact, the FTT for these schools is actually inversely proportional to the other criteria previously mentioned:

Brother Rice: 11:1
Loyola: 15:1
Marist: 15:1
Ignatius: 15:1
Fenwick: 19:1

So, despite having a larger FTT ratio, the other schools do better on the criteria that are generally accepted as being consistent benchmarks for the quality of a school's education.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-11-2012
Statechamp123 Statechamp123 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Frankfort
Posts: 10
how does Brother Rice not have a wrestling program? did you forget about
mike avelar, 3 time state placer
luke nelson, 3 time state placer
Malik Taylor, pretty sure a four time state placer.
with a coach like wick, brother rice deffinately has a wrestling program......
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-11-2012
LastoftheRedskins LastoftheRedskins is offline
On the Reg
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Statechamp123 View Post
how does Brother Rice not have a wrestling program? did you forget about
mike avelar, 3 time state placer
luke nelson, 3 time state placer
Malik Taylor, pretty sure a four time state placer.
with a coach like wick, brother rice deffinately has a wrestling program......
Three wrestlers in a 55 year school history does not make a wrestling program. If you were older than 20 you would know and understand this. Also, when it comes to Bill Weick please let me know when he starts coaching again, because he probably hasn't run a practice since the early 90's at Mount Carmel. There is a difference in being a coach and just a name for a title.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-11-2012
mckajc mckajc is offline
Junior Varsity
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedskinTurnedHuskie View Post
Mckajc,

Unfortunately, the numbers do not support your reasoning. In fact, the FTT for these schools is actually inversely proportional to the other criteria previously mentioned:

Brother Rice: 11:1
Loyola: 15:1
Marist: 15:1
Ignatius: 15:1
Fenwick: 19:1

So, despite having a larger FTT ratio, the other schools do better on the criteria that are generally accepted as being consistent benchmarks for the quality of a school's education.
Actually no. For the data to show inverse proportionality numbers need to be constant in the comparison. That isn't the case here. I appreciate the attempt to structure the argument toward the objective side, but we don't have data to support proportionality of any kind without scaling the enrollment numbers first.
I do question the 15:1 ratio though, those are 2008 numbers. Today that ratio is closer to 20:1. Also, many factors come in to play with the post high school testing and school choice numbers you've quoted, neither take all students into account. As you know if we want to make a proportionality graph we need proportional data. In school test data of most recent students is far more objective due to the fact that every student enrolled takes the tests.
Given the difference in base numbers of the two school I'm not so sure the facts you've quoted are that relevant in comparing the school. Your basically saying you have a better chance to get to the Ivy League by going to Marist than by going to Brother Rice. Your research doesn’t support that proportionally. Now you may have a better chance to win a team wrestling state title at Marist. Let's bookmark this post and we can discuss individuals same time next year. Or right after the BR vs Marist duel. LOL!

Last edited by mckajc; 04-11-2012 at 04:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-11-2012
RedskinTurnedHuskie RedskinTurnedHuskie is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by mckajc View Post
Actually no. For the data to show inverse proportionality numbers need to be constant in the comparison. That isn't the case here. I appreciate the attempt to structure the argument toward the objective side, but we don't have data to support proportionality of any kind without scaling the enrollment numbers first.
I do question the 15:1 ratio though, those are 2008 numbers. Today that ratio is closer to 20:1. Also, many factors come in to play with the post high school testing and school choice numbers you've quoted, neither take all students into account. As you know if we want to make a proportionality graph we need proportional data. In school test data of most recent students is far more objective due to the fact that every student enrolled takes the tests.
Given the difference in base numbers of the two school I'm not so sure the facts you've quoted are that relevant in comparing the school. Your basically saying you have a better chance to get to the Ivy League by going to Marist than by going to Brother Rice. Your research doesn’t support that proportionally. Now you may have a better chance to win a team wrestling state title at Marist. Let's bookmark this post and we can discuss individuals same time next year. Or right after the BR vs Marist duel. LOL!
1. Thanks..I enjoyed your post and perhaps we can discuss more off line? Even better, over a cold one at Cork and Kerry!

2. No, those are 2011 student:teacher ratios.

3. If you review my posts, I was not making this a Marist vs Rice discussion. My comments regarding Rice were positive. I am simply saying that of Catholic schools that were mentnioned, they are better when using widely accepted criteria...particularly Ignatius, Fenwick, Loyola and to a lesser extent Marist. We can agree to disagree. At the end of the day, it really doesnt matter as long as the kids get an education that they, and more importantly, their parents are satisfied with.

4. Since we have hijacked the original intent of this discussion, can we please get back to the original subject...where are the IKWF placers/champs who are 8th graders going next year?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-11-2012
oldpioneer oldpioneer is offline
Olympian
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,667
They are all good schools. After all, at the end of the four years the student will make their own results. In other words, regardless of the data comparing the privates and ratios..........there is a great opportunity for success at all of those schools. mi dos pesos
__________________
Always support your local wrestling tournament concession stands!!!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.